Sri Madurai T.N. Seshagopalan, the celebrated Carnatic musician and composer had his initial musical training under his mother and Sri. Ramanathapuram C. S. Sankarasivan (disciple of Harikesanallur Muthiah Bhagavathar, the eminent musician and composer). He is considered a musical genius and is known for his expertise in all aspects of Carnatic music-- Alapanas, Neraval, Kalpanaswara prastharas, Ragam-Thanam-Pallavis, Kirthanas, Thirupugazhs, Thukkadas and Ragamalika virutams.   He has received a number of awards and titles including Madras Music Academy's "Sangeetha Kalanidhi" in 2006, the Indian Government's "Padma Bhooshan" in 2004 and most recently, CMANA's Lifetime Achievement award in 2007.

Srivani Jade is an Indian classical vocalist based in Seattle. She is also founder and editor of Ragavani Journal of Indian Music and Dance. Srivani has a Master's degree in Electrical Engg from Colorado State University. She has been pursuing music full-time since 2006, and is currently busy performing, recording, composing and teaching.

Srivani Jade [SJ] spoke to veteran Carnatic vocalist Sri Madurai T.N.Seshagopalan [TNS] on the eve of his concert for Ragamala's annual festival Utsav 2007.

SJ: What was your childhood environment like, especially with respect to exposure to music, early lessons...

TNS: My first teacher was my mother. She says I could sing when I was two and a half years old. Many of my friends have heard me sing in my fourth year. I gave my first performance when I was seven. Early music was initiated by my mother. She taught me devotional music like Ashtapadis, Krishna leela tarangini, Purandara daasara devaranaamas, Bhadraachala ramadas keerthanas, small krithis and the like, and she had me give my first Bhaktiranjani (devotional songs) program in my seventh year. She also exposed me to all kinds of music, took me to classical concerts, Naamasankeerthana programs at the temple...at a very young age. I have memories of concerts I attended and music I heard in my fourth or fifth year.

SJ: So, she would take you to kutcheries and you would sit through at that age? 

TNS: Yes, yes. She would later ask me questions about what I heard, and what I thought of what I heard. She made it second nature for me to grasp the art, and express what I heard in whatever way I could at that age. In that way, she developed artistic expression in me.

SJ: How did she know music? Had she trained?

TNS: She had an ear for music. It was in the family. It's not that she was a professional musician or gave concerts or anything. She was a very good singer. She was also president of a Naamasankeerthana group in Madurai.

SJ: And Madurai was where you spent your childhood. Are there other brothers and sisters in your family who also sing?

TNS: At that stage, every body was given the very same exposure to music. They took different lines (careers). I developed this line and emerged as a musician.

SJ: So, when did you know that you were going to become a musician?

TNS: I did not know that I would take up music as my profession. But I knew very well that I liked singing and that I would sing my entire life. There was that connection with music. A certain instinct and feeling about music was always within me. That I would take up music as a profession, I did not know. It was irrelevant at that time. It was only decided after my sixteenth or seventeenth year when I joined my guru. When I started giving amateur concerts, I could see that I would definitely take up music as a profession, putting everything else aside. But before that, and even as a child, I always felt an untold happiness being with music. That was always there.

SJ: So your guru Shankarasivam Sir encouraged you and helped you figure out that you had it in you to be a good musician?

TNS: Yes, yes. Until that time, I had other plans. Even though I was giving a lot of Bhaktiranjani programs, mono acting, drama programs...anything and everything (laughs), I had never imagined that I would ever do music at a professional level or that I would make a name in the field of music. Even though I was a Math student, I majored in Biology because I wanted to become a medical doctor. But when I joined my guru, everything else left my mind...it became music, music, music for me all around. He changed my philosophy in life, my way of thinking. It was ONLY music from then on. After that, I started giving concerts and enjoying success...reaping the benefits of the work that I was doing. This gave me hope and confidence. I started thinking of myself as a musician.

Even as I was in the second year of my degree program, I became a graded artist in All India Radio (AIR) and started giving full fledged concert programs. 

SJ: The program opportunities at AIR used to be quite frequent then, right?

TNS: Yes, they used to offer a slot once every 3 months. And wherever music was presented in and around Madurai, I used to be invited to perform. So, I became a busy musician even during my college years. Even my professors used to take pride in me and host my concerts in all their family functions, wedding receptions etc. So, I started earning (my livelihood through music) while learning. Success came early, and then I was sure I would become a noted musician.

SJ: Was that vocal music only at that time or also the veena?

TNS: At that time, vocal only. I could play many instruments from my childhood years. Harmonium when I was seven or eight...veena, flute etc. But I became very serious about the veena and started giving veena concerts in the year 1971 or 1972.

SJ: Where did you learn veena technique?

TNS: By myself. My teacher used to sing and ask me to reproduce the phrase on the veena. In this way, I developed my own style of veena playing.

SJ: It is mind-boggling for me that someone can pick up an instrument and become an expert in an almost entirely self-taught manner.

TNS: I can play classical raagas with all the appropriate gamakams even on a keyboard. Let me play something for you on the keyboard in the next room. I am sure I will exceed your expectations. You have to hear it to believe it.

SJ: Any important milestone or turning point from your early life that you would like to share?

TNS: Yes, yes. From my seventh year I was winning prizes and was praised and given gifts for my music. In my twelfth year I gave a program in Kumbakonam, a place in Tanjore district. The program was presided over by the great violinist Kumbakonam Rajamanickam Pillai. After the program, he praised my performance and then addressed the public, "Dear well-wishers, don't allow this boy to rest easy and go around performing at this level forever. He is very talented. Put him under a good guru and train him properly in classical music and make him a big vidwan. If you do that, you will be getting a very good vidwan for the field of music." He mentioned my guru Ramnad Shankarasiva Bhagavathar and recommended that I go to him. After that I also decided I must learn properly and become a good musician. That was in the year 1960.

SJ: So your guru accepted you right away and you stayed with him?

TNS: Yes, yes. We both lived in Madurai and all my time outside of college, I spent with him. This was almost like a Gurukulavaasa (in-house residency with the guru).

SJ: What kind of teacher was he?

TNS: He was a strict disciplinarian. Not only did he teach me compositions-- varnams, krithis
etc.-- he also taught me a great deal through conversations about music.

SJ: Were you already doing manodharma (creative improvisation in music) at the time?

TNS: Yes, yes. I was already singing Raagam at the time. But he took my manodharma to a much higher level. And within a span of one and a half years he made me give a first-rate classical carnatic kutcheri. I only moved to Madras in 1992. Until then, in Madurai, either I used to be in my guru's house or he in mine. We used to talk about music all the time...nothing else.

SJ: One often hears conflicting views on the role of performance in the growth of a student. Some teachers believe that the first concert should happen only when the student is ready for a performance career. Some others believe in performing as they go and learning the art of performance and getting valuable feedback early on.

TNS: My view is you must first know the subject thoroughly. When you have acquired considerable vidwat (mastery), only then should you perform. When an artist gives his/her first performance, people should say that, but for concert experience, this is a good artist. So, a person should give a concert when the guru feels that s/he has mastered a decent repertoire of music and has the required depth of understanding of the art to go on a concert platform. By experience s/he will learn to read the pulse of
the audience...what to give, when to give, how much to give. Some people have this naturally..but most people have to acquire this through experience.

SJ: One sees a lot of interest among the youth, especially in India, to learn classical music. What is this generation getting right and what is it not..

TNS: Music education is more widely available and students are working hard. Sponsors are also coming forward more than before to support young artists. But I have my own doubts on whether this is being utilized in the right manner. Is this ultimately working in favor of the art, I don't know. Sometimes, people get exposed to the concert platform too early. Our classical music takes a long time to understand and master. There are no short-cuts.

SJ: You're saying people are in a hurry to perform and...

TNS: Yes, yes. It is a natural instinct. When opportunities are available, they will grab it with both hands. But there can be no long term good from this, either for them or for the organizers or for music.

SJ: I presume you have many students that are good...

TNS: Yes, yes. Many of my students are front-ranking musicians...my son included. I am a serious and sincere teacher. I don't take students for whom music is a hobby. I don't take people who are willing to pay me well but for whom learning from me is a resume-building exercise. Unless and until I feel they are dedicated to music, I don't take them. It is a different matter if they will take up music as a profession or not. But they should be serious musicians. That is a must.

SJ: What is your teaching philosophy?

TNS: It depends on the receiving spectrum (laughs). If they can absorb a great deal of material and can practise seriously and regularly, if they can can involve themselves in the pursuit of learning with complete dedication, I can give them a lot. Others will have to be given in smaller portions and encouraged to master them bit by bit. Over-feeding can only cause indigestion (laughs). So, it all depends on the student. There is no single permanent methodology that is ideal for all.

SJ: Musicians have their strengths. Some are very good with Raaga, some with Taala. You are considered to be extremely good with both. Do you consider that a natural gift or was there some aspect of your training that helped?

TNS: I believe that being adept in one aspect is highly complementary to the other. How people use their musical faculties is the only factor. If one is good with Laya, it goes without saying that he can be good in Raaga also. And if one is very good with Raaga-bhaava, he can become very good with Taala and Laya also, provided he makes an effort in that direction. All depends on the artist. The musician has to choose to become a well-rounded expert in all aspects of music rather than confine himself to
specializing in one or the other. I think I have made myself open to all subjects within music and to learning them in-depth. It makes no difference to me whether I am exploring a Raaga or a Taala. Both give me the same satisfaction.

SJ: What is your advice on daily training or practice routine for Carnatic music? A related question: Are gamakams inherently harmful to the voice?

TNS: I don't believe gamakams hurt the voice at all. You should realize your own limits and gradually build stamina day by day. It is not that one or two or three hours are okay for music. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Do you want to be an amateur who will sing a couple songs on a given occasion or do you want to be the greatest musician that you can be or do you want to be a torch-bearer of the field of music itself.....this you have to decide. You have to think music, breathe music and commit yourself to music completely. Unless you think and live in this manner, you cannot become a good musician. 

SJ: So, good talent, good guru, good practice and commitment-- these are the key factors...

TNS: Yes, yes. And I don't mean a commercially successful musician. I mean a good quality
musician.

SJ:. I think I have kept you talking for long. Thank you for making the time for Ragavani.

TNS: Thank you.