MK: Things seem to have a changed quite a bit since the time you were a student to now when you a teacher. As you mentioned, life is very fast paced now, and I feel that many students seem to be in a hurry to study the basics and then rush off to find performances to get on the stage. This is very different from how you focused on studying the technique first and solidifying your foundation which served as the tools you used to create some beautiful works. Do you see this attitude among the students you teach?
CV: Yes. There is a change in attitude, which begins at home and in society. Every parent is pushing the child, teachers are pushing students –by teacher I mean the academic teacher, and everyone wants to keep up with the Joneses. As a result, children who really could make dance a vocation aren’t doing so. I have had parents who brought their children to me saying that it is through dance that the children can learn about Indian culture, and we would like them to be with you. But once the eyes of the children are opened and they want to make dance a total commitment, the parents get very upset. They say that there is no security and future in it. As a hobby it is okay but not as a full time commitment. Not every girl will get a husband like Visweswaran who will let them dance. The tragedy is that so many who have been forced by societal and parental pressures to go into vocational courses, such as MBA, Engineering etc. are finally not pursuing those. Even if they do for some time, they give it up and come to dance, because at that time, they have their victory but they lose out on the best learning period, the enjoyment and joy of the discovery from learning, the fascination, all of which at some later point in time when you are no longer so sharp or so young helps you so much.

In India, I don’t know about this country, there is this terrible exam syndrome – how much you score is very important. The studying is not for knowledge, but if you get so many marks, you can take entrance exams for courses, there is constant comparison among parents, and it is an exam oriented environment. Similarly, dance has become exam oriented. Besides government exams that you can take, a performance is an exam - a public exam on stage. I don’t encourage my students to do too many performances. I want them to do some, because without performances there is no incentive to learn but there shouldn’t be performances day in and day out without leaving time to assimilate, digest, and internalize the dance. It is very important to sit back and think. This phrase has particular significance to Vazhuvoor Ramaiah Pillai. After class was over, he used to say “think”. Because I had just come from Kolkata and used to speak more English than Tamil, I used to think that he only knows one word in English, so he keeps repeating that!

 

When I think back though, I can really understand what he meant. He wanted me to think about what I had learnt and internalize it, re-assess it, re-visit it, and that has become my policy now – I re-assess, re-visit, and research what I already have. But this difference in attitude is there now. I see a lot of technical brilliance in dancers but everyone needs to slow down, and visit the within to find their own. Then that extra thing that is needed to make it in this field will be there.

MK: You were so self motivated and studied dance theory and world religion at a young age on your own, along with studying Bharatanatyam. Do you find that drive in students today, or are they just caught up in the rat race?
CV: There are some who are self motivated. I can’t say that everyone in my generation was, but I have come across youngsters, not only from India but from the US too who are very desirous of going into the depth instead of skimming the surface. I had self motivation to a certain extent but my main motivation came from my mother. She was always a very cultured and refined person. She felt that dance is more than a vocation; it is a prayer and a means for communion with the divine. She would subtly guide me. My dad was academically extremely brilliant and always motivated to research his own field. He used to say “Never be satisfied by the regular solution to a problem. Try to find six others.” All these things – they were there as people who set examples and this helped me very much, and made me self motivated. They would say “So what if something is not taught. Why don’t you learn it yourself?” And they used to do things like buying me a book instead of jewelry; instead of a sari they would get me something that would help my dance. So they were the people who set an example of this search. I think some youngsters are really passionate. There are some of them who are really searching.

MK: Today we have the problem of educating our audience. There are not many sponsors but a lot of dancers and other artists. The fact is that we don’t have an enterprising audience which will support our art. In an effort to create awareness, I see that Bharatanatyam is presented in street shows, and in inappropriate venues where the audience is eating food during the performance. That hurts me because I feel that is not the place for this art form. For example, the ballet never gets presented that way. In an effort to popularize this art form abroad, people have made such compromises. What are your thoughts on this?
CV: That is true because as you say, there is a place for everything. When the Ballet doesn’t get presented like this, why must this art get the treatment of a step child and be labeled as ethnic or folk dance? However, performing in inappropriate environments is something that the dancers have to be strict about. Yes as performers, we are keen to dance but we should stand up for the dignity of our art form, otherwise it will lose it. As an example of this from my own experience, I was once sent by the Government of India to a folk festival in Italy. Somehow they overlooked the fact that it was a “folk festival” and they sent Bharatanatyam to it. I explained to the organizers that mine was a classical art form. They said it was still fine for me to perform my classical pieces. At every town and city we went as part of the tour, it was generally the procedure that all the artists would parade and dance on the road. I refused to do it. The organizers tried to coax me to comply because everyone will be doing it. I explained that Bharatanatyam is not danced on roads, but if they wanted, and because my country made the mistake of sending me to dance Bharatanatyam at a folk festival, I would walk with everyone, with dignity, but not dance. They agreed to this arrangement.

 

So somewhere along the line we need to stand up for our art. I do understand the pain of dancers if they don’t have performances. The frustration of it; believe me, all of us have gone through it all. None of us were born performing, and performances didn’t come easily to any of us. It is not easy to hold on either, and people try to push you out. That is there everywhere. But somewhere we must have conviction in ourselves and in our art form. In India too, the Taj and other groups of hotels have restaurants based on themes like Tanjore, Mysore etc. in which a dancer is dancing when people are eating. When we were young and coming up in the field, they wanted good dancers and asked us but we didn’t give in.

MK: That is a message I would like our online journal to give young dancers that while you faced the same problems as they do today, you didn’t dilute the art in any way.
CV: Similarly, there are large companies that organize short shows of 45 minutes to an hour’s length, and you need the money from such shows to present more qualitative performances in sabhas (concert halls) or in more artistic circuits. But you shouldn’t dilute the art. Do justice to it with explanations etc. But if alcohol is served during the performance or food, you have to say that you will not dance. They may get upset, but they will learn eventually. Once in Germany, years ago before Germany had woken up to Bharatanatyam, and in places like Damstat, where it has become common now to have Indian music and dance festivals in good theaters, in the early 1980s nothing like Indian dance was known. At that time, a big dance festival organization now had scheduled my performance. They couldn’t find or afford a proper theater. So they hired a space with a stage on one side but there were tables in the seating area. When I saw it, I told them that I will not dance if food is served. They assured me that nothing will be because they understand about the art form. As the opening prayer of the performance was being sung, my husband saw someone smoking. He stopped and announced “I see someone smoking. I am sorry but I request that he put it out. I will explain why. To us, dance and music are a prayer and the stage and space where we present it is like a temple. We would appreciate it if this place is not defiled.” The gentleman put off his cigarette and the entire audience clapped.

MK: Thank you, that was very enlightening to hear. One experience that I have had, particularly in Chennai, with NRIs trying to perform during the music and dance season, the sabha secretaries are openly telling them that if they pay money then they can perform. What are your opinions on that? They don’t even care about the quality of the performer.
CV: It is indeed very sad because it is only the NRIs who can pay to dance and they are taking the place of NRIs who can’t pay as well as local dancers who have the talent but are unable to provide the funds. Now there are some sabhas looking into this and providing space for dancers without asking for funding but they are miniscule.

MK: Times have changed from when artists were paid to perform to one when artists are paying to perform and performances are up for grabs.
CV: Yes, in terms of payment, it is a question of who is paying who, and it is very sad. This is why sometimes very qualitative dancing gets lost along the way. I won’t say that everyone who is paying and dancing is not good. There are several good dancers who are doing it but several bad dancers are doing it too. This discourages dancers who cannot pay yet who have the talent. This is one reason why people are moving away from dance as a vocation. My colleagues and I keep discussing this and we try to find alternate spaces such as little temple festivals that are happening and we encourage organizers to have more dance in those spaces. The Association of Bharatanatyam Artists of India (ABHAI) is also trying to do something about this issue. But these are just a few, and by and large there is so much money taking happening because of which we are losing out on good dancers. So it is an uphill task to solve this problem, but we must keep trying.

MK: Where do you see the future of Bharatanatyam on the world stage?
CV: Bharatanatyam being treated as a folk dance is very hurtful. In a period when dance was not even known in the West, we had a flourishing scientific art form in India. And it is tragic, but I don’t know what you can do in the U.S. Get together and raise your voice; start some sort of movement. India’s independence too came through a movement. There has to be one in which everyone, the whole community gets together, and says that terms such as ethnic, and non-mainstream dance should not be associated with the classical dance styles of India. These styles existed much before dance came into the society anywhere else in the world, and they can’t treat it as a casual folk dance.

MK: Senior dancers like you have done your share of explaining what the art form is about whenever required. If a lot of us put in our best efforts to do so and send a message, people outside India will get it too. The more we play to the gallery, the more we will slide back in this endeavor.
CV: Yes, that is very important, to not cater to the gallery...to never lose confidence in ourselves. Only when we do will we cater to the gallery. And if a dancer thinks that a large audience will come to watch a performance only if she stands on her head and dances, she can certainly do so but not call it Bharatanatyam.

MK: Now my last question. On your Web site you say that at the time when you started performing seriously, there were many distinguished dancers on the scene already, yet you held your own and made a niche for yourself. Is there a message from your own experience that you would like to send to young dancers?
CV: Vazhuvoor Ramaiah Pillai used to tell me a story. This is also a message to all young dancers that if they are not included in a dance festival when others are, they must not lose heart. There was a big Pongal festival organized in January way back when I had just begun my career in Chennai, some 32 years ago. It was organized by Krishna Gana Sabha. Every dancer worth her name was included in it. I was the only one not included and I remember sitting and weeping, and telling my Guru, Vazhuvoor Ramaiah Pillai, that I was the only dancer not included. He said, “Don’t cry, because if you work hard, understand beauty and make it a part of yourself, and not lose your goals, then a time will come when truth will win and you will be included in every festival of the sabha”.

 

Then he told me a story about a man who was crossing the border to a village on a boat. In his hands was a cage with a bear that was performing antics. Everyone on the shore was watching and appreciating it, when suddenly the bear’s claw pierced the bottom of the cage. Then perfume emanated from it - something that the man was smuggling into the village and trying to hide. So he said that truth is like the perfume that people will try to hide but it can never be left hidden for long. It will come out and find its own way. So never lose your confidence and your conviction. Never lose heart.